[toy4two]

I have a 2011 328i with the N52. The car has 150,000 ish miles. Dealer maintained outsde of brake pads and oil changes and all recalls done. Last one was a vanos bolt recall done 6 months ago, apparently they said all mine were loose. no big in and out with new valve cover gasket and misc items on the invoice.

Car has never given me any issues except the plastic coolant overflow hose on top of the radiator cracked.. About a month ago I changed my oil which I do every 7500 miles. I usually use Castrol Euro A3/A4 5W-30 but I wanted to try Valvoline restore and protect 5W-30 since I saw how well it cleans engines and my engine burned maybe 1/2 quart of oil between changes, really minor but I wanted see if the piston rings were stuck like most at 150K to help.

Today I'm driving about an hour down the 15N when I hear what I thought was popcorn sounds from the engine. The more gas I gave it the faster it was making noises. I drove 5 miles and pulled off at a trolley stop in San Diego, popped the hood and this is what is soudns like:

With the hood open its much louder than the "popcorn" sound its more of an RPM clanging sound.

The oil level is exactly full not over filled according to the gauage, no check engine lights, and it drove perfectly fine.

I had it towed an hour back home and am afaid to drive it. Next weekend I want to pull the fllter (Mobil 1 or K&N oil filter can't remeber) and drain the oil.

The drive belt tensioner is a year old and the car is 100% stock except for a K&N panel filter I put in.

What could this sound be? Can just a oil and filter change 1000 miles ago cause this?

[toy4two]

Is it safe to drive with the engine making this sound? My father says he thinks it’s a stuck valve and I think it’s piston slap. But then I saw an AC condenser video failure which maybe it’s that. The car is perfectly maintained with OEm or Genuine parts and stock my plan is to keep it running 250,000 mikes

[toy4two]

I pulled the accessory drive belt knowing it had to be the AC compressor bearing went out at 155,000 miles.

Pulled belt, started car, engine knock remains.

Pulled the oil filter:

https://youtube.com/shorts/FLUkQQpRjww

Here is what's left in the filter:

I was not mining for gold but the entire oil is filled with metal flakes.


totally stock babied 2011 BMW 328i I had planned on running at least another 100,000 miles. Car is mint... *was*

I've been going over in my head did I some how screw up this oil change I've done this one for the last 5 years. The only difference is I switched from Castrol 5W-30 Euro A3/A4 to Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 and I used a Mobil 1 Oil Filter for the first time vs the MANN I usually use because AutoZone had it right down the street. I went back looked at my eReciept and this oil filter is listed as correct for the 2011 328i it makes zero sense to me why my engine grenaded.

https://www.autozone.com/filters-and...55a/466411_0_0

Has anyone else had issues with M1 filters or this oil, it was still synthetic and I planned to change it at 5,000 miles since its a cleaning oil vs my normal 7,500 miles. Never in my life

[toy4two]

I really really love this car. The new BMWs are not attractive to me, have turbos which I dislike for reliability and lag, and lack the hydraulic steering of this one. I'm not looking to win races just reliable daily driver that is quiet, comfortable, and doesn't need full insurance since its a $6000 car.

What options to do I have. I could do a compression test and isolate which cylinder. If its just bearings could I do that by dropping the pan. I still can't identify what the sound is, piston? Rods? Valves? Bearing? Does anyone know or am I looking at an engine swap as the only economical option.

[Phil325i]

Hate to say this, but the only explanation seems to be that Restore and Protect has dislodged something (roller cam follower?). Your experience has put me off using this product (which I was intending to do) as my mileage covered is similar to yours. Please let us know if you find out the cause of the noise...

[toy4two]

i was updating over on https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2107935&page=2 and on YouTube if you want to follow.

Dropping the oil pan looks like a PITA and its really not a priority at the moment have 2 other cars and a 30 year old boat I'm restoring. I will eventually drop the pan and depending on what I find pull the valve cover.

The dealership just months earlier sent me a video and the tech was praising how well I take care of the car. Im sure when he pulled the valve cover to change the VANOS bolts he would have told me I have oil sludge or some issue inside the engine but I've done so many oil changes on this the oil filter never looked this bad and my magnetic drain plug never had such a thick what I call sludge on it.

It could just be the magnet on the drain plug caputures a ton of metal from the failure and mixed with the REALLY dark oil looks like sludge but its just microscophic metal magnitized together. Until I drop the pan maybe it isn't sludge.

[edycol]

I just saw this post, so let me chime in about this "wonder" oil.

1. Let's be very clear: Restore and Protect is NOT sufficient oil for any BMW, especially M and N generation of engines (regardless of which one).
First, let 's clear the air. R&P 5W30 is not the same as BMW TPT 5W30 or any other oil that has ACEA A3 (LL01) and C3 (LL04) specifications. Those oils have HTHS (High Temperature-High Shear) at a minimum of 3.5cP. R&P is ILSAC GF-6 oil, which means it is an energy-conserving oil. HTHS of R&P is around 3cP at best, and shear stability of oil is far worse than anything, even mediocre as Castrol Edge 5W30 Euro is. What is HTHS? Basically, to avoid long post (I write this extensively in F87 M2 forum etc) is viscosity under pressure and it is measured using the same methodology as measuring cold cranking pumpability, but at 150c. It is far, FAR better indicator of oil protection performance than the KV100 measurement is, which is kinematic viscosity at 100c (30grade, 40 etc).
Second, R&P utilizes some cheap base stocks. It is Group III oil, and unlike BMW LL01 it does not have nearly as stringent shear stability limits. WHen it come to cleaning abilities, what R&P does is using additives to dissolve carbon deposits./ Even Valvoline claims that they stumbled upon this accidentally.

2. Now, this being said, why R&P. It is absolutely not necessary to use it unless the engine has deposit issues. No BMW will have that if oil changes are done regularly using LL01. Now, would R&P ability to clean cause a problem here? No. If that N52 was getting regular oil changes, there is nothing big to dislodge. Also, R&P does not dislodge stuff; it dissolves as engineers at Valvoline know that dislodging is a big issue, so they watered down the product to dissolve it over several oil changes. For OP purposes, oil with bit of esters is far better solution, something like Mobil1 ESP 0W30. Esters are natural cleaning base stocks and ESP 0W30 is ACEA C3 which means HTHS is minimum 3.5.

3. SO, what do I think happened? I don't think this one OCI killed the rod bearing. I think the rod bearing was already there to fail, but this far inferior oil to LL01 pushed it over the edge. Take into consideration that this R&P is ILSAC GF-6 API SP, which means additive package, a traditional one is weak: Zinc is around 700ppm, moly around 171, Calcium 1100. Castrol Edge 5W30 Euro, which was used before, is API SL. It has API SP additive package but from Edge 5W40 oil. Why is still SL? Because the API, with the introduction of the SM specification, limited phosphorus in 0W30 and 5W30 oils to 800ppm, and Euro oils usually have well above 800ppm, sometimes above 1000ppm. So ZDDP level in R&P is well below Edge 5W30 Euro, and ZDDP is the last line of defense that keeps two metal parts from each other. Before that, it is HTHS that keeps two parts apart. Once viscosity breakdown happens, it is ZDDP. In both, Valvoline R&P is a wastly inferior oil to anything LL01 or LL04.

Guys, stay with LL01 or LL04 oils!

[toy4two]

Originally Posted by edycol

I just saw this post, so let me chime in about this "wonder" oil.

1. Let's be very clear: Restore and Protect is NOT sufficient oil for any BMW, especially M and N generation of engines (regardless of which one).
First, let 's clear the air. R&P 5W30 is not the same as BMW TPT 5W30 or any other oil that has ACEA A3 (LL01) and C3 (LL04) specifications. Those oils have HTHS (High Temperature-High Shear) at a minimum of 3.5cP. R&P is ILSAC GF-6 oil, which means it is an energy-conserving oil. HTHS of R&P is around 3cP at best, and shear stability of oil is far worse than anything, even mediocre as Castrol Edge 5W30 Euro is. What is HTHS? Basically, to avoid long post (I write this extensively in F87 M2 forum etc) is viscosity under pressure and it is measured using the same methodology as measuring cold cranking pumpability, but at 150c. It is far, FAR better indicator of oil protection performance than the KV100 measurement is, which is kinematic viscosity at 100c (30grade, 40 etc).
Second, R&P utilizes some cheap base stocks. It is Group III oil, and unlike BMW LL01 it does not have nearly as stringent shear stability limits. WHen it come to cleaning abilities, what R&P does is using additives to dissolve carbon deposits./ Even Valvoline claims that they stumbled upon this accidentally.

2. Now, this being said, why R&P. It is absolutely not necessary to use it unless the engine has deposit issues. No BMW will have that if oil changes are done regularly using LL01. Now, would R&P ability to clean cause a problem here? No. If that N52 was getting regular oil changes, there is nothing big to dislodge. Also, R&P does not dislodge stuff; it dissolves as engineers at Valvoline know that dislodging is a big issue, so they watered down the product to dissolve it over several oil changes. For OP purposes, oil with bit of esters is far better solution, something like Mobil1 ESP 0W30. Esters are natural cleaning base stocks and ESP 0W30 is ACEA C3 which means HTHS is minimum 3.5.

3. SO, what do I think happened? I don't think this one OCI killed the rod bearing. I think the rod bearing was already there to fail, but this far inferior oil to LL01 pushed it over the edge. Take into consideration that this R&P is ILSAC GF-6 API SP, which means additive package, a traditional one is weak: Zinc is around 700ppm, moly around 171, Calcium 1100. Castrol Edge 5W30 Euro, which was used before, is API SL. It has API SP additive package but from Edge 5W40 oil. Why is still SL? Because the API, with the introduction of the SM specification, limited phosphorus in 0W30 and 5W30 oils to 800ppm, and Euro oils usually have well above 800ppm, sometimes above 1000ppm. So ZDDP level in R&P is well below Edge 5W30 Euro, and ZDDP is the last line of defense that keeps two metal parts from each other. Before that, it is HTHS that keeps two parts apart. Once viscosity breakdown happens, it is ZDDP. In both, Valvoline R&P is a wastly inferior oil to anything LL01 or LL04.

Guys, stay with LL01 or LL04 oils!

Really good information. In my ordeal I've called around to local BMW specailist mechanics. They said bearings going in a N52 is so unheard of they have never done them, then some laughs "but we do N55's ALL DAY LONG" another then when I told them abotu the Restore and Protect, they don't use it never even heard of it in their circles of BMW repairs, but when I mentioned Castrol they said they didn't even like that as when they open up Castrol engines they have that golden deposts everywhere and said they don't get that with Mobil 1 or Amsoil and don't recommend it but its not harmful but based on appearances they prefer to work on engines that use M1 and I think I know why this is reading above.

In all my research BMW bearings are fussy and the formula changes in some or all models around 2010.5 - 2011. Some M models people claim BMW messed up the clearances for their recommened 10w-60 oil who kows the truth but I can tell you the N series 3.0 engines have a ton of bearing failure stories out there and the V8 M3. I hope BMW has learned from the Toyota partnership on the B58 how to make engines that don't leak oil and have bearings that last the life of the car even with lower quality oil like R&P.

Having tons of experience swapping engines in boats, I can't tell you how important ZDDP is in oil formulation. Boats are decades old and use flat tappet cams. If you use today's modern engine oils in a boat you will flatten out you tappets and cam on anything that isn't use a roller cam which showed up around the late 1990's in the marine inboard world. The magic number on boat engines is 1200 PPM of Zinc and its CRITICAL during the first 20 minutes of break in.

Boat engines live their life at a constant 3500 RPM putting 20,000 lbs vessels across oceans for hours, 7 hours, it like driving your truck up a mountiain highway towing a heavy trailer for 7 hours straight nothing is more important in a boat engine than engine oil and cooling, luckily boats float on an unlimited cooling source .

I'm also a Porsche flat six owner and again ZDDP is critical in those engines too where bore scoring can occur and you are out a 20,000 engine. Had I know how low the ZDDP was in R&P I would have never tried it. Some get lucky using it in their BMW but I think the risk reward is too high.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by toy4two

Really good information. In my ordeal I've called around to local BMW specailist mechanics. They said bearings going in a N52 is so unheard of they have never done them, then some laughs "but we do N55's ALL DAY LONG" another then when I told them abotu the Restore and Protect, they don't use it never even heard of it in their circles of BMW repairs, but when I mentioned Castrol they said they didn't even like that as when they open up Castrol engines they have that golden deposts everywhere and said they don't get that with Mobil 1 or Amsoil and don't recommend it but its not harmful but based on appearances they prefer to work on engines that use M1 and I think I know why this is reading above.

In all my research BMW bearings are fussy and the formula changes in some or all models around 2010.5 - 2011. Some M models people claim BMW messed up the clearances for their recommened 10w-60 oil who kows the truth but I can tell you the N series 3.0 engines have a ton of bearing failure stories out there and the V8 M3. I hope BMW has learned from the Toyota partnership on the B58 how to make engines that don't leak oil and have bearings that last the life of the car even with lower quality oil like R&P.

Having tons of experience swapping engines in boats, I can't tell you how important ZDDP is in oil formulation. Boats are decades old and use flat tappet cams. If you use today's modern engine oils in a boat you will flatten out you tappets and cam on anything that isn't use a roller cam which showed up around the late 1990's in the marine inboard world. The magic number on boat engines is 1200 PPM of Zinc and its CRITICAL during the first 20 minutes of break in.

Boat engines live their life at a constant 3500 RPM putting 20,000 lbs vessels across oceans for hours, 7 hours, it like driving your truck up a mountiain highway towing a heavy trailer for 7 hours straight nothing is more important in a boat engine than engine oil and cooling, luckily boats float on an unlimited cooling source .

I'm also a Porsche flat six owner and again ZDDP is critical in those engines too where bore scoring can occur and you are out a 20,000 engine. Had I know how low the ZDDP was in R&P I would have never tried it. Some get lucky using it in their BMW but I think the risk reward is too high.

Yes, N51/52/53 (53 is EU DI engine) rod bearings are unheard of. I regularly track my N52, sometimes in sessions as long as 1 1/2hrs, and it still has 155k, does daily driving, groceries, skiing, etc. The engine does not skip a beat.
Castrol is OK for any BMW as long as it is approved. But Castrol has two tiers of oils approved for BMW:
Top tier: Edge 0W30 and 0W40
Second tier: Edge 5W30 and 5W40.
The 0W30 (my favorite) and 0W40 are up to 50% PAO based (true synthetics). 5W30 and 5W40 are Group III hydrocracked oils.

As for N55, in 2014 BMW had an update of those bearings. On other hand M engines and oils are a never-ending debate. 10W60 oils that BMW uses, or what most people buy are oils that have a lot of viscosity improvers, mostly cheap ones (looking at Liqui Moly). Basically, 10W60 shears down quickly to W50 and very often to W40. If I had any BMW M with engine that has problematic rod bearings, I would go HPL Euro 10W50 or 5W50. HPL is incredibly shear stable oil and made out of the best viscosity improvers, which they don't use a lot in the first place as base stocks are really good.

Now as for Toyota, I don't think BMW has anything to learn from them. Toyota's leak, too. 2GR-FE is considered one of the best, if not the best, Toyota engine, and yet it leaks like crazy at the timing chain cover. Unlike in BMW in 90% of cases, 2GR-FE has to go out to fix that. I own now 2018 Sequoia with 5.7 V8, which is as notorious as BMW when it comes to VCG leaks. However, in Toyota, VCG leaks internally into spark plugs. SO it is not visible. For most people if not visible, not a problem. Add to that leaks on the transfer case actuator, where TC has to go down to fix it.

Latest debacle with Toyota engines (I don't buy their story about debris) is proof that Toyota is really not good in making sophisticated engines (In Europe they were buying 2.0 diesels from BMW bcs. theirs D-4D engines could not make 60k miles without pistons literally breaking apart). Also, their engines (old, naturally aspirated) run super cold, unlike BMW's. I owned a Sienna with 2GR-FE and it would take forever to warm up. It became such a nuisance with small kids that I installed block heater, although I had an insulated garage. The way that the engine sheds heat is astonishing. IMO Toyota supposed to use B58 in new Tundra/Sequoia instead of that 3.4TT. They would save themselves a lot of money, and their customers.

When it comes to ZDDP, 1200ppm is the absolute limit for zinc and maybe 1100 for phosphorus in approved oils. Motul 300V racing oils is bit shy of 1300ppm as I recall when I did my UOA:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2159248

In this UOA oil with 4,600mls is Castrol Edge 0W30
Oil with 5,000 is Castrol Edge 0W40. This oil had A LOT of hard track miles. But wear metals are on par with 0W30 which was used in winter.
Left column 5,000mls/150,000mls on unit, is Motul 300V 5W40 Competition. As you can see, Zinc level is almost 1300ppm, bunch of moly.

[Brandoch]

Why not just use the approved LL01 or LL04 oil?

[M-technik-3]

High ZDDP was phased out for emission purposes. Car were designed with better tolerances and have better fueling and cooling since the 80's. If you need a high ZDDP yo can still get the original Mobil 1 formula that is sold for V-Twin Harley's. It's the old 15-50 and 20-50 oil. I use the the 15-50 in my E30 M3 and Blackstone doesn't say boo about it. The ZDDP is high and there is the old Valvolene VR-1 that is also high in ZDDP that is harder to find.

ZDDP and Catalitic converters don't get along they tend to get plugged up.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

High ZDDP was phased out for emission purposes. Car were designed with better tolerances and have better fueling and cooling since the 80's. If you need a high ZDDP yo can still get the original Mobil 1 formula that is sold for V-Twin Harley's. It's the old 15-50 and 20-50 oil. I use the the 15-50 in my E30 M3 and Blackstone doesn't say boo about it. The ZDDP is high and there is the old Valvolene VR-1 that is also high in ZDDP that is harder to find.

ZDDP and Catalitic converters don't get along they tend to get plugged up.

You don't need that high. The limit on approvals is 1200 ppm for zinc, 1100 ppm for phosphorus.
VRP is 700.
However, the bigger issue is that VRP has lower HTHS 3cP, instead of what N52 demands, a minimum of 3.5cP.
However, I think that this VRP just pushed rod bearings over the edge. Something messed them up already. One OCI won't grenade engine.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

Why not just use the approved LL01 or LL04 oil?

VRP became really popular, and a bunch of people are using it although it is inappropriate for an engine.
On top, anything LL01/04 is better than that oil.

[toy4two]

First eeeeneee-meanieminey-mo... which cyclinder should I inspect:
https://youtube.com/shorts/uepkabeS84Q


And the winner behind door number 1 is:

some final pics as I dropped oil pan and removed #1 rod bolt.

Welp no point going any further. I'm not going to "shoelace" the crank its not worth it as the bearing will just spin again, maybe 100 miles maybe 10,000.

Returned about $300 worth of FCP Euro parts needed to fix it and will just put that money toward a $1000 75,000mi N52 my local junkyard has in stock.

The only thing Im keeping is the new oil pan gaskt and bolt kit for it for the next engine before it goes in.

$1000 to make the car worth $5000 sounds good to me, its just time. Since the sub frame is already out piece of cake to get to the transmission bolts and no need to remove the front bumper just lift the engine out the top and right into the dumpster.

[toy4two]

Considering all the other bearings and crank looked practically new with zero wear or grooves, I'm going to say Mobil 1 Oil Filter crush = oil starvation.

Of course its Cylinder #1 failure, in other BMW engines that one always goes.

[toy4two]

Edycol what oil brand and viscosity is best for my next engine
Daily driver? Illl switch to that from Castrol A3/A4

[hanynowsky]

Hello.
Your 1st cylinder rod bearings were already worn out because of the former Vanos bolt issue. 1st cylinder is the first in firing order.
You (or first owner) waited too long before fixing the loose vanos bolts.

What was holding the bearings are hardened chunks of carbon which got dissolved by Valvoline RP.
Add to that the M1 oil.filter you used is not compliant. It shrunk and caused oil.starvation.

I dont believe Valvoline RP is the root cause at all. Even if its HTHS is 3.0 instead of 3.5 (bmw Ll01). As the BMW N42 and N52 were designed for the spec BMW FE-LL01 which calls for a viscosity at 100C of only 9cst and a hths of 3.
See specs for Liqui moly special tec B 0W30 : it s approved BMW LL01 FE.
https://n52.opentika.ovh/?auto=0&app...ry=ES&surname=

Here are my recommendations for those willing to use VALVOLINE RP in a nmw M54, N42, N46, N52...

- use 2 consecutive oil changes (500 miles between) to flush some of the sludge. BMW 5W30 TPT LL01 has the best cleaning ratio on the market.
- then use Valvoline RP every 3000 miles. (3 oil changes)
- the oil.filter must be a MANN FILTER.
- change the oil filter every 500 miles (soak it with oil before install).
- never go past 4000 RPM during this period.
- never never WOT.
- use Valvoline RP only in cold winter (February is the ideal time).

After completion if the 3d oil.change, you must go back to your ordinary oil.
For at least 2 oil.changes before trying valvoline RP again.

[toy4two]

I mean I took the car within a few weeks to the BMW dealership when the VANOS bolt recall arrived in the mail. How would a customer even know his VANOS bolts were loose

They did not find any bolt heads sheared off in the oil pan when that job was done and it drove fine for 6 months before the fateful decision to use the Valvoline Restore and Protect, funny only done because someone on here was raving how well it cleaned their N52.

I walked away from the E90 328i and miss it everyday. Went with a F10 528i (lux barge, not sporty) with the N52 and it will ONLY be getting EURO Spec 5-40 with BMW LL spec with MANN filter. N52 engines are becoming harder to find in good shape for decent money. At some point it doesn't make sense to replace just buy a new car.

Just bad luck (vanos) and poor decisions to try something new like R&P and Mobil 1 filter.

[Phil325i]

If it makes you feel any better, think of all the owners you've helped by dissuading them from using R&P. When I read your post I was about to take the plunge with R&P at my next oil change. So glad I didn't and so appreciate you telling the world...