[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JimmyTheHand

My universe is I that I am an electronics engineer.

No your arguments have been about how EVs will randomly bust into flames and ICE never randomly bust into fire and how things like fuses will stop fires - so in your universe Kia wouldn't need to issue a “park outside” recall for 462,869 model year 2020-2024 Telluride vehicles(gasoline I believe) with instructions to would they as the fuse would have stopped such a risk.

To be precise (again), with EV, the fuel that propells the car catches on fire spontaneously because the battery contains all three elements of fire: heat, fuel, oxygen. With ICEV, spontaneous fuel fires are extremely rare; gasoline still in a parked ICEV is comparatively extremely safe. If an electrical short occurs and possibly creates a fire, it's easily extinguable (compared to an EV battery fire). Rarely does an electrical fire in an ICEV catch the fuel in the fuel tank on fire.

[Car-Addicted]

Thefts of charging cables pose yet another obstacle to appeal of electric vehicles
DETROIT (AP) — Just before 2 a.m. on a chilly April night in Seattle, a Chevrolet Silverado pickup stopped at an electric vehicle charging station on the edge of a shopping center parking lot.
Two men, one with a light strapped to his head, got out. A security camera recorded them pulling out bolt cutters. One man snipped several charging cables; the other loaded them into the truck. In under 2½ minutes, they were gone.
Still, the more cables the thieves can steal, the more they can cash in. At $20 a cable, 20 stolen cables could fetch them $400.

https://apnews.com/article/electric-...2e8d7dd3402f3a

Here's a question? Why are the charging leads attached to the charger and not part of the EV and thus protected from theft?
Sorry to bring common sense into the discussion when there is a planet to save and a middle class to destroy.

In a unrelated story:
A massive copper shortage is on the horizon
But while the element may be a key part of economic lifelines, by 2030 global copper mines will only meet 80% of the world's copper requirements, according to the International Energy Agency. Copper did recently reach its highest-ever stock price, ballooning above $11,000 on the London Stock Exchange, but this was strictly due to investors piling on "in anticipation of deepening supply shortages," Bloomberg reported. Why is there going to be a shortage of copper, and what will it mean for the global economy?
For one, the hopes of the 10-year transition to electric vehicles are "an 'irrational' pipe dream because we don't have enough battery materials," said Fortune. The outlet also noted that even if more copper was to be found, opening a new mine takes an average of 23 years.
EVs, like wind turbines, require a tremendous amount of copper: The average EV typically "requires over 132 pounds of copper, as opposed to just 52 pounds for the average gas-powered car,"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...eabe1fae&ei=49

So the crooks stealing the EV charger leads are helping elevating the copper shortage.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

The report warns that the electrification agenda pursued by New York Gov. Kathy Hochul and her fellow Democrats is pushing the state’s grid toward conditions for blackouts as soon as this summer.

Major offshore wind projects in New York canceled in latest blow to industry
The decision is another setback to New York’s aspirations to achieve 70 percent renewable energy by 2030 and be a hub for the nascent industry in the United States.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...celed-00153319

What could possibly go wrong?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Think New Yorkers will listen when the Gov issues do not charge order?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/to...69dce83f&ei=20

The report warns that the electrification agenda pursued by New York Gov. Kathy Hochul and her fellow Democrats is pushing the state’s grid toward conditions for blackouts as soon as this summer.

“New York’s public policies are increasingly prioritizing clean energy production and a rapid transition away from fossil fuels,” NYISO President and CEO Rich Dewey wrote in a letter featured in the report. “It is imperative that during this time of rapid change we maintain adequate supply necessary to meet growing consumer demand for electricity. Power Trends shows that achieving this balance will be the central industry challenge over the next decade.”
The report emphasizes how increasing adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) and electric heating in the state are adding demand while fossil fuel-fired power generation facilities are being retired at a rate that exceeds the new green energy generation coming online to make up for lost capacity. The amount of capacity taken off the grid since 2019 more than doubles the amount of capacity that has come online to replace it in the same period of time, according to NYISO’s report.

I'm old enough to remember the NYC blackouts of the 1970s. They did not build windmills in response...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

If I'm going to pick a ICE car most likely to catch fire it would not be the Ford Pinto but the Lamborghini. Lamborghini's have been catching fire from the Miura on. IMO some what engineering but most often ownership and their driving habits and lack of maintenance.

Over 5,900 Lamborghini Aventadors And 12 Venenos Recalled For Fire Risk
Italian supercars and fires go hand in hand like Mustangs and Cars and Coffee crashes.
https://carbuzz.com/news/over-5-900-...for-fire-risk/

There are quite a few that have, people seem to forget Porsche had a bad run with this just a few years ago too.

IMO, the quest for more and more HP means higher pressure fuel systems delivering more and more fuel, which if it goes wrong, is going to go wrong much faster and bigger than in the past.

[M5Rick]

Just 10% of GB mechanics are licensed to work on EV's, the rest are not allowed anywhere near them.

[Car-Addicted]

With the cost of used EV's dropping like a rock and the cost of repair labor and battery replacement so high it's no wonder there are so many being discarded.

If you dispose of your dead EV is that bad for the environment? Just asking for a friend.

[MADBMWX5MC]

Originally Posted by gonzo

5 letters.
Starts with C and ends with a.

Oh, that's funny right there..

[Car-Addicted]

The Government Has Issued More Than $1 Billion in EV Tax Credits This Year
June 12th, 2024
Regardless of how you feel about EVs and the tax credits offered by the federal government, the truth is that people are using the incentives. Since January 1, EV buyers have seen more than $1 billion in savings on their purchases, with around 150,000 new and used vehicle sales so far this year.
Importantly, that $1 billion number does not include leases, which would push the figures much higher. The government’s incentives are likely more popular this year because they changed from a year-end tax credit to a point-of-sale “discount” that buyers can use to immediately reduce their purchase prices.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ca...-year-44507506

These EV's must be great if the tax payers have to pay 2 Billion a year to get people to buy them. Makes me want to go cut some EV charging leads for spite.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

With the cost of used EV's dropping like a rock and the cost of repair labor and battery replacement so high it's no wonder there are so many being discarded.

If you dispose of your dead EV is that bad for the environment? Just asking for a friend.

Of course because it’s made of vegan polar bear friendly materials that for sure will 120% be recycled and won’t ever see a landfill

/s in case it wasn’t obvious
Consumption is the death of the environment.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The Government Has Issued More Than $1 Billion in EV Tax Credits This Year
June 12th, 2024
Regardless of how you feel about EVs and the tax credits offered by the federal government, the truth is that people are using the incentives. Since January 1, EV buyers have seen more than $1 billion in savings on their purchases, with around 150,000 new and used vehicle sales so far this year.
Importantly, that $1 billion number does not include leases, which would push the figures much higher. The government’s incentives are likely more popular this year because they changed from a year-end tax credit to a point-of-sale “discount” that buyers can use to immediately reduce their purchase prices.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ca...-year-44507506

These EV's must be great if the tax payers have to pay 2 Billion a year to get people to buy them. Makes me want to go cut some EV charging leads for spite.

Has the government ever subsidized anything before? We could go back to free land to settle the west (steal it from the native Americans), but maybe there are more recent things. Is your approval democratic or only for things you personally approve of? Should we still be riding horses? Are heat pumps bad? Do you just want whatever is cheapest from China? I don’t own any electric or hybrid cars but I believe I understand enough that internal combustion engines are less efficient and that we should transition to battery or hydrogen or other non-hydrocarbon power. As for when and how, I remain open minded. My inclination is that the present phase of battery development is just that — a stage in evolution and that I plan to wait for further development.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

46% of Americans who buy an EV would not buy another.

The most sensible thing to do unless EV driver wants the water torture treatment, the bottom line: will it stop, ignite with not letting occupants out or start accelerating into the scenery. This is so serious and could change a persons life in seconds.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Has the government ever subsidized anything before?

You do realize that a trillion dollars to the fossil fuel industry that benefits everyone in the country one way or another is very different than giving 2 million dollars to a select group of folks to get a behavior out of them the government wants? If you think the economy is in the toilet now try $5.00 gas and 30% higher air fares and a 10% instant inflation on everything in our lives that is fossil fuel based (don't make me post that chart of all the critical items in our daily lives that depend on fossil fuels.)

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

My inclination is that the present phase of battery development is just that — a stage in evolution and that I plan to wait for further development.

On this we can agree. The development of the ICE engine was determined by the free market and not government largess, good ideas prospered and bad ideas found their way to the trash can of history and it was all done on free market principles.
That said I can easily see buying a properly designed hybrid in the future when the batteries are safe and not an environmental disaster. When the vehicle provides enough power to accomplish the task at hand and only uses the energy requires to do that job.
That is not today's 500hp ICE with 1000lbs of batteries added.

[Car-Addicted]

Sign of the times?

Ford ends controversial EV dealership program
June 13, 2024
The Detroit auto maker will no longer require dealers to invest upwards of $1 million to sell electric vehicles.
Instead, Ford will open EV sales to all of its dealers in an attempt to grow sales of its all-electric cars and trucks.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/aut...ram-rcna156961

[Chappers 71]

VW are to redirect $95 billion in Investments in EV’s back into Gas Engines. The company had hoped sales would be 20-percent all-electric by 2025; they're currently at 6.5%

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

VW are to redirect $95 billion in Investments in EV’s back into Gas Engines. The company had hoped sales would be 20-percent all-electric by 2025; they're currently at 6.5%

VW may be in trouble. Their biggest market was China and that is unlikely to go well for them.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by gblansten

VW may be in trouble. Their biggest market was China and that is unlikely to go well for them.

Hmm…I wouldn’t be so sure

From 2021, car manufacturers in Europe will have to pay large fines on CO2 emissions. The aim is to encourage them to convert their fleets to more environmentally friendly alternatives. China, on the other hand, is also promoting innovations for internal combustion engines

https://www.iav.com/en/what-moves-us...-technologies/

[Car-Addicted]

Hmm…I wouldn’t be so sure
China's economy is a house of cards and their primary need is to produce and sell products. Cash flow is king. They could care less about the environment or politics. They will produce what ever sells and do it cheap enough to dominate the market no matter what the tariffs are.

We are never more than nine meals away from anarchy.
(John J. Fitzgerald)

[M5Rick]

We have a nutter in GB calling himself Sir and saying it's 'time for change' with bringing the gas car sales ban back to 2030, sounds very much like a prelude to disaster to me.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

We have a nutter in GB calling himself Sir and saying it's 'time for change' with bringing the gas car sales ban back to 2030, sounds very much like a prelude to disaster to me.

Hey Rick how you doing?

Personally I reckon this whole ‘EV thing’ will end up like BetaMax once sustainable fuel comes fully on line

[Car-Addicted]

Maybe we will all be running around in vehicles powered by little thorium reactors?

[eugenebmw]

46% Of American EV Owners Say They’re Getting A Gas-Powered Car Next And It’s For A Great Reason: Study

https://www.theautopian.com/46-of-am...-reason-study/

Owning an electric car is difficult for those who don’t have access to a home charger. I don't think this issues can be fixed in the next 5 years.